Pyromancy?

[Rend]

I am writing this post because of something Dyson said. If you could be a pyromancer that would be awesome. Getting bonuses because you concentrate in one kind of magic(like fire based) would be great. Totally creating sub-classes of magic users. Specialists. Kind of the way maybe that Necromancy is a Sub class of Druid. It would be cool the see a whole school of pyromancers or hydromancers. Well thats all I'm rambling.

[Dyson]

yay specialists :)

Thanks Rend- I'm glad someone agrees with me there.

I always wondered why so many computer RPGS never focused on having specialists for each type of magic- if they have any, it's usually just a Necromancer *cough DIABLO 2 cough*

Seriously, the different elements need more representation. If there were any spells in real life, you can bet I'd be researching how to Fly, rather than chuck fireballs or raise zombies.

[BelDragos]

Actually Necromancers are subclasses of Priest, Druidical, and Wizard. To be a Necromancer you would have to take skills in all three aspects of magic.

I suspect that the magic system will be expanded once bete starts but for now there are about half a dozen areas that each aspect specializes in with necromancy being shared by each.

The staff mentioned this in an earlier thread.

[Su'ulMorda]

Pyromancy? Hmm, Fire....
*Beavis & Butthead flashback*
ugh.
Still, the idea is sound, futher specialization can only add depth to the system. Later in the second edition years of AD&D they came out with a large number of such variants, perhaps seeing a few similar additions could be possible? If not at the start, then perhaps later in the campaign?
Hmmmmm...

[BelDragos]

We shall see what cards are delt to us>

[Dyson]

I don't recall the thread where it specifically stated Specialists had to take ranks in all classes of magic.
I had thought it was stated that the Necromancy School would be present in the Wizard, Priest, and Druid classes of magic, but spells would not necessarily be identical (ie, a wizard necromancy spell might be Animate Skeletons, while a Priest may be able to Raise Dead, etc).

I had figured the term "Necromancer" applied merely to someone who specialized in Necromancy in one or more areas. Example:
Player A puts all his points into Wizard Necromancy, and Player B does so for Priest Necromancy, while Player C devides his points equally between both.

Players A, B and C are all considered Necromancers, even though their abilities (and the spells available to them) may vary. For those who wish to classify them specifically, Player A is a Necromancer Wizard, while Player B is a Necromancer Priest. Player C can pretty much call himself whatever he likes; he's a variety man when it comes to Necromancy (though if all these characters are of the same level, Player C probably won't be as powerful in any one area as A or B, as he's split his points between two different groups, rather then sinking them into one).

That's how I'd interpreted the system, at least.

[Rend]

I'm a little confused now. Is necromancy going to be an art that you must learn a little from each type of casting, or is the way Dyson has just explaned. Each make sense to me. The first way I actually like a little better as far as a Specialist is concerned. For example: A pyromancer would learn all forms of fire magic. They would learn the wizard fire spells and the psionic fire spells and so on. That is how I view a specialist. Making a pyromancer different from a wizard that likes to use fire magic.

[BelDragos]

It depends what you want.
If you want a character that has a touch of necromatic magic in addition to his other skills you can take Dyson's path.

If you want to be a Necromancer you have to study all forms of the art, learning everything you can from every source. You are a Necromancer. It will not be an easy path to follow but being a specialist means that you study the field extensively. If oyu don't you will only be a pale immatation of what you want.

[efz88]

Yes this is very true. You have to be foucosed on one area. Using abjonction or conjurazation, would be oppisite schools. If we where going by AD&D you would have your one school of magic only know minor spells in the others and not know any in your oppistset school such as : fire spcilasts can learn water spells or life and death etc..

[Dyson]

Here's a problem, though- learning "all forms" of a particular magic by embracing psionic, wizard, priest, and druidic ways of using that particular magic requires that it is represented in all four Arts in the first place.

Okay, I know that sentance was a bit convoluted- let me try again. :) If you have to learn a school of magic in all 4 "forms" (or as I call them, "arts") of magic to be a specialist, every school of magic is going to have to be represented 4 times. Let me give an example:

Bob wants a Necromancer specialist- by using the "all forms" system, he devides his points between Wizard, Priest, Druidic, and Psionic Necromancy. Probably not a big deal- all four arts most likely have Necromancy schools.

Bill wants to be a Telekinesis specialist: here's where we get a problem. He puts some points into Psionics, but where does he put the others? Maybe there's a "telekinesis" school in Wizardly magic, but there's probably not one in the Priest or Druid sections. If we're going to force specialists to learn from all 4 arts, all the arts will have to have identical school lists. This is a bad idea.

Certain types of effects only make sense when represented solely by one type of Magic. In addition, gaining priestly skills requires worship of a God, or so I would think- Must all Abjurers worship a god of protection? Do all Necromancers have to worship a god of Death? Is there even a god of Telekinesis that Kineticists could worship? It doesn't sound like a road we want to go down.

On a personal note, I resent the implication that the system I proposed only gives a "touch" of skill. On the contrary, my system provides much more potential for extreme power. Look at it this way:

Zed is a specialist in Wizardly Necromancy; he searches for complete magical control over life and death.

Xin is a specialist in Priestly Necromancy; he looks for the best way to serve his patron god, and seeks to further his understanding of the divine by studying his god's area of interest.

Yov is a generalized specialist in Necromancy; he wishes to have understanding of Necromancy itself, and hence, has split his points evenly amid all the Arts that have a Necromancy school. He learns from wizards what he can, prays to the god of Death for information on the Priestly side of Necromancy, and does whatever he has to in order to learn the Druidic and Psionic sides of Necromancy (if there are Necromantic schools in the Druidic and Psionic Arts).

Assuming Zed, Xin, and Yov all the same approximate XP:

Zed is going to be very good at creating undead and killing people.

Xin is going to be very good at healing wounds and raising people from the dead.

Yov will be moderately good at both these things, and well as whatever Druidic and Psionic Necromancy encompasses, but he won't be nearly as good as Zed or Xin in their particular fields.

Now, Zed may think (rightly so) that the Xin and Yov are weak; after all, he is capable of some pretty extreme shows of power, killing with a word or raising undead hordes.

Counterwise, Xin may feel that Zed is war-mongering fool, ignoring Necromancy's divine side in favor of raw power. Xin will probably view Yov as a distracted dreamer, unwilling or unable to fully turn to the god of Death for true enlightenment.

Finally, Yov probably considers himself as a "purist" amid the other specialists, as he tries to expand his mind to include all aspects of Necromancy.

This system classifies specialists according to what they study- it doesn't force them into pigeonholes. To implement this into the Game Engine, anyone who puts more than 50% of their skill points into a single School of Magic is a specialist (or some other large number, could be tweaked in beta). Whether they just put the 50% into one school in one Art (ie, Xin, who had all his points in Necromancy: Priest), or split it up in some combination between arts (ie, Yov, who had his points spread throughout Necromancy: Priest, Necromancy: Wizard, etc), so long as the points are in Necromancy in one way or another, that character is a Necromancer. Same for any other sort of Specialist: Pyromancer, Diviner, Abjurer, whatever.

I think that this system makes the most sense and give the widest distribution of options.

Opinions, Feedback?


[Edited by Dyson on 01-02-2001 at 12:01 PM]

[Rend]

Dyson... Once again you make a very good point.

[BelDragos]

In this game you can call yourself whatever you wish. When someone calls you out on it you had better be prepaired to back up your claims ot you might loose face(Look, it's Billy-Bob the Fake!!! Ha Ha Ha Ha)

Be careful what titles you aquire.

[Dyson]

I'll avoid mentioning the inherent irony of your post.

Anyway, since this is the player board and all, what sort of specialist characters will you folks (if any) be creating? If Flight is indeed supported, I'll be hard at work garnering ranks in Aeromancy... the prospect of fine fun flying almost brings a tear to my eye.

I suspect they'll be a quite a few Necromancers, of course... anyone itching to try out something a bit rare, like a Geomancer or Diviner?

[BelDragos]

If they decide to allow the Elemental Magics, I doubt they will include it in the opening of the Beta. We will probably have to discover them after start-up.

[Rend]

If their is a way to play a geomancer or "terra"mancer class iwould love to. If not that then i was should for a pure power psionic. kinda like a mind melder for Rifts. All power psionic spells. To control the earth would enough power for me i think.

[BelDragos]

I'm not sure what they are going to have at the start of Bera but I'm pretty sure they won't add anything until they are sure it's running and have all the bugs out of the basic systems first.

[Dyson]

I would have thought staple fantasy spells like Fireball or Wall of Stone would been some of the first magicks available. Where did you hear that they wouldn't be, Bel?


[Edited by Dyson on 01-03-2001 at 12:46 PM]

[BelDragos]

I mean that if they add exotic magic to the game it will be after the basic systems are running without any problems. I think it would be cool if one of the players were to be allowed the discovery of additional magics but I feel that they will keep it simple until they are sure everything works properly before adding anything.

[Su'ulMorda]

Me i'm more into the positive-negative energies directed via necromancy, particularly how they apply to spirits and the like.
In 2nd Ed D&D I played a Philosopher necromancer, more of a scholar than anything else. It was quite a compelling character actually. Ethical conflicts were central to the character, and even though he slid into moral descent, I found that I enjoyed the playing out of that fall...
The prospect of raising undead minions has some small use, but I'm more interested in the more esoteric facets of the dark arts...
Hmmm, a little side-tracked there...
Either way I'd like to specialize along those lines. We'll see what I can make of the system when presented with it in beta, well, I hope I'll be playing beta, anyway...