Discord and Neutrality

[vilk]

OK, I've finally made up my mind. I am now looking for similarly-minded folk who wish to join me in what is, ostensibly, a guild, but any group of people devoted to discord can't really be called a group, can they?

To start, let me explain the theory behind it. As in all things in life, there must be balance. Balance between good and evil, balance between light and dark, balance between all opposing extremes that you can think of. Naturally, sentient creatures may upset the scales and that's when the universe, in its own massive, unthinking way, gets turned topsy-turvy. For all things to be in good order, both sides of every equation must form an equality. Not above this is law.

Chaos and law are two extremes, but in human society law is quite obviously the clear winner; why else are there guilds, hierarchical structures of likeminded people, formed to establish upon their predicted followers, and the world, in some cases, order? Light wants government to regulate the citizens and keep them safe. This is order. Darkness wants totalitarianism with all peoples under one man or woman's iron fist. This is still order. What actively and consciously represents the random, chaotic factor in human society? Me.
I am against imposed order to the extent that bringing regimes against large groups of people is against nature. Discordianism is the introduction of random elements to keep total order from ever being established. Remember, that is TOTAL order. As all things must balance, there can neither be complete chaos nor complete order.

Now...

Who's with me?

[Kintoun]

Hmm... http://members.chello.nl/~deleeuw3/hmm.gif. As I stated before vilk I am amused by you.. To be honest I was hoping that you would join forces with me and Morte and join our Doomguard. You strive for balance, no? If this is true then by conquering and ruliug all we will effectively be the force which balances. We will use our combined effort and power to bring balance at our discretion. Yet if you would rather go your own way I cannot stop you. But I am extending my hand to you as an offer...

[vilk]

Balance? By conquering all you are openly and flagrantly weighting down the scales in favour of law and order. It is because of such organisations as your Doomguard that I must exist.

One extreme cannot seek balance, for as long as it exists, there is no balance.

[Jouk]

Hmm... Come to think of it...

Isn't true neutrality what you strive for?

And the problem is that Evil fights Good and Good fights Evil for supremacy, thus causing imbalance and conflict? Yes?

So, isn't the Ultimate Solution to exterminate all Evil and all Good so only true neutrality exists?

Problem solved!


*Sits back, takes a sip from his wineglass and laugs to his beard...*

[vilk]

I have settled on balance as opposed to neutrality; there is quite a distinction if you ponder long enough. Destroying good and evil is like eliminating both sides of the equation. If, in 1 = 1, you destroy both 1s, you still have the equals sign left. The answer is not as simple as you think.

[Jouk]

Ahh, yes... Balance. I was thinking that you were still keen on neutrality. Damn terms.

Besides, what's so bad about destroying the 1s in the equation, as long as you are the =...:cool:


Besides, the answer is as simple as you make it.


I bet, that in the end, you'll just stoop to fighting off Evil while good reigns. Bah, I'd be heart broken that nobody never fights off Good when Evil reigns, if I cared about them Holier Than Thous that much.

You do realize that when the world finally sees light, it'll probably be ruled over by Good. Wouldn't that mean that you'd have to burn a village or two, just to make things "balanced"? :D

[vilk]

That's exactly what I've outlined, Jouk. As long as organisations, regardless of what side they outwardly favour, seek to establish global rule, I will be there, fighting good with evil and dark with light. If I have to start wars to maintain discord, then I shall do so.

[z_man93]

Hey Kintoun, I didn't realize that you were part of the Doomguard. My take of the Doomguard is that it's a sort of rogue/assassin guild. How does your Prime Healer-ness fit into the picture? I guess I always thought that you would end-up in a guild with Kymeri. Nothin against Morte's guild, I think it's great. It's just that, other than being friends, I don't see what your characters have in common. You seem to be more closely aligned with Kymeri.

[Kintoun]

(no offense to z_man) Ha! If you have been paying attention to the story of the gods thus far you would understand that my scales of balance are being tipped towards the evil side since the new arrival of the God of Darkness. My status as a god is the equality between Kymeri and Morte.. as I have studied under both of them (under Kymeri as the High Bishop, and under Morte as the Arch-bishop). It wasn't until I began spending more time with Morte did I relaize how one sided I have been looking at everything in Novus. My Prime Healer status comes from a long lineage of great healers borned to Novus. And I still retain that title as the, once, greatest mortal healer in the lands. True, I admired Kymeri and hoped to be a great asset to the Order of Light.. but I have grown much closer to Morte as a brother, and I feel we share much more in common. As for the Vortec Doomguard... it is a joint guild between the two gods, being me and Morte. He shall head the rogue assassins, and I shall head the fighter-mages.

[Morte]

As a side note, being a healer does not exclude the possibility of being evil. Good and evil are very subjective terms, and thus very hard to define. It is therefore quite difficult to give a concise explanation of what it means that someone is evil, or good. For now, I will limit myself to stating that although killing and otherwise furthering yourself at the cost of others is not the definition of evil. It is merely a facet which is often labeled as evil, which is the cause of many misconceptions. Being of evil or good alignment says something about the way you approach life, and how others judge that approach, would they know all the facts. Often, though, many things are hidden from view, most importantly the reasoning behind an individual action. Judging by someone's actions, we can consider someone to be a good individual, although we might radically change that point of view had we full access to the underlieing reasons of said actions, or perhaps had we knowledge of other actions undertaken by the same individual previously unknown to us. It is therefore perfectly possible to be an evil healer. The subject of good and evil is a very fascinating one, with a complexity equal to that of the human psychological makeup. There is obviously a lot that can be said about it, but foremost I think it is important to keep in mind that they are very subjective elements, something many people tend to forget. The morals and values that define good and evil in our modern society are by no means static, and are in fact different from person to person. But I will refrain from going into it further for now, since it would cost me a lot of time and would result in a very long post.

[Talka]

Hmm... I'm glad that there's a neutral guild going, as in most guilds, neutral is over-looked.

So I'm taking it that..

Neutrality - Not evil or good, in the middle
Balance - A path of neutrality that helps to make things 'balanced.'

Vilk. There never will be balance. Balance is something to strive for, but never to be caught. It is, as a poor analagy, a carrot hanging on a string in front of the donkey.

With Dark Clerics.. is it that those that follow the paths of evil can not heal? Do you tell me that those that follow the path of light have never killed? You have sinned, we can heal.

And with the Doomguard, I plan on joining that, maybe when Beta (for me) starts.

--Talka

[vilk]

It is also folly to think that you can attain and keep total darkness, for even UBIK has his contenders and troubles. There was balance before humans and the other thinking races upset the balance; while I cannot fully restore balance, I can make motions to move the scales closer to the center.

[Jouk]

Like I said, you gots to kill 'em all...

*Laughs* :p

[Kintoun]

I know, being the scales of balance between light and dark, that balance is something that can never be acheived. As stated, balance is not the same as order. And I believe that's what people are confusing here. Even with an incorrect balance of light and dark there can still be order. But also even order is something which is hard to acheive. The fact is that men will always butt heads and continue to conflict. Peace, order, balance... All things which man will hold as their ideals, and strive to acheive... yet they will never reach this. That is why I choose to not waste my time attempting to work towards these goals. Instead I creat my own power, my own being, my own Fate... With this I shall not be compared to others standards, but will be a strong force in affecting these scales of balance with power alone. Consider me the outside force which is on neither of the scales... Altho by their standards people will attempt to label me as nuetral. Yet in actuality I am looking out for my own, and for those closest to me. If it is in my benefit then it is something which WILL be mine. Call it good, evil, lawful, unlawful. There is only one person who can properly take care of me and know me. And that person is myself. Hopefully I can reflect this attitude upon my guild which can dynamically be standardized from good to evil, lawful to unlawful. Whatever it takes for me to empower my guild will be done. Because in the end... good and bad won't matter. The only thing that will matter will be who is on top. And just by being there we will have a great influence on the land of Novus.

Ok, done, heh. There's my philosophical rant for the day.

Awesome Talka, welcome to the guild! Me and Morte have quite a bit outlined, but nothing too solid at this point for our guild. I'll need to craft a webpage resonably soon... expect a purty one like the one I showed you guys before (click my webpage link below -- it's incomplete still.. but a good show still).

[Kymeri mac An Iolar]

Don't forget I have dibs on you for making a website for me as well. (sigh) I know absolutily nothing about making websites.

So far as guilds goes, we're pretty even

Morte/Kintoun with the Doomguard
UBIK with the Morbid Angels
Wrentia with her Knights
Kymeri with the Order of Light
Beldragos with Arcane Arts
Vilk with his Balance (got a name?)

Thats 2 Evil, 2 Good, 1 Neutral, 1 Balance

I'm not counting the Undead Lords since they have not been heard from in almost a year.

Any I missed?

[vilk]

Yes, the Discordian Society. Or the Erisian Liberation Front. Or the Squirrels of Justice. Or the Christian Coalition. Or the Justified Ancients of Mummu. Or the Illuminati. Or the Doomguard. Or the Imbibers of Water. Or the Flaming Meatballs of Victor McGee and His Furry Friends. Plus several thousand more.

Take your pick.

[BelDragos]

The Citadel of Magic will be attempting to attain as much of the Knowledge that the DEVs will allow. It will be magic based and open for all spellcasters.

I will allow membership in other guilds as long as it doesn't interfere with The Citadel and its goals.

I am currently working on a charter that I will submit when I feel like it best describes what my goals are.

[Dyson]

Well, I'm aligned with Kymeri, but I'd probably end up leaning more towards a neutral-neutral-good outlook. Use the darkness as an unexpected resource to maintain the status quo of Good, and all those sorts of things that drive pure evils nuts... :)

As for undead, I'll be delving into associations with personas of that pursuasion, though it will probably be a splendid exercise in incongruity; Cheerful Pleasantness as an outlook for the Dead and Past Dead. I'd thought the Undead Lords would present a problem to this end (what with their whole Undead-are-the-ultimate-Evil predisposistions), but as noted, they haven't been around much. :p

Vilk, your neutrality goals interest me a great deal, though I'm probably not balanced enough to aid your cause properly. *bows politely*

[vilk]

Personal balance is unrelated to the outward pursual of balance. But if you prefer to follow your own goals, by all means, go ahead. Let me get in the way.

I'm sorry. Don't. ;-)

[z_man93]

I'm working on a guild/army. It'll focus a lot on RPing and character development so there will be a lot of training and mentoring required. And at the same time this will lead to very skilled individuals, and should benefit newbs by letting them train with veterans and benefit the whole game as they will learn to RP. It'll be open to warriors and magic users alike, as they all have their place in an army. What I am undecided on is how strict of a heirarchy should be put in place at this time. During beta things will be quite chaotic so I'm thinking of letting people form clans with a few of their friends. Then when the game is released we'll try to unite the clans(easier said than done) into an army. I'm also working hard on alliances and activities so that people will be attracted by the benefits of the army. Anyways that a real rough description of where I stand now, just in case anyone is interested.