Ack!

[Slitherrr]

How many different playable races are you guys planning on having anyways? And will all race have some sort of general alignment, or is it common for variants of the same race to have totally different ideals?

[Lordosis]

We don't have a hard cap on the number of races we're going to have. We have about 5 planned right now. The two we are focusing on now are the Acks (they will have their web page up SOON) and an as of yet unnamed race of lion-like creatures. By beta, we will also have humans for sure, and probably elves, since Rolfe has an elf fetish :). Expect a few more "standard" races and a few more "original" races when Arcanity is released. As we expand the world after release, we will offer new player races.

By choosing a certain race, you won't be forced to play a certain alignment. But you will be treated differently by NPCs (well, and PCs of course) depending on your alignment. And NPCs of a certain culture will generally be of like alignment. Maybe an example can help clear this up. The lionlike race is a very proper, magestic race. Most will be of a "good" alignment. If you choose this race and then go around slaughtering newbies all day, you're alignment will migrate towards "evil". Now when you go back to the lionlike's homeland, you won't be given much respect. Merchants will likely charge you inflated prices, you most certainly won't be able to get any help from the cleric guild, etc. But you could now fit right in if you went to a goblin town, for instance, since goblins tend to be "evil" in general.

Note that I implied by that example that NPCs won't be "racist" like they are in other games. This is true. You will not, in general, be "KOS" (Killed On Sight) by an NPC just becuase you are of a different race. If there was some kind of race war going on, that could change. But in general, your alignment will be much more important than your race in NPC interactions.

[Edited by Rolfe on 08-30-2000 at 02:15 AM]

[Rolfe]

Any thoughts on the Ack page posted recently? I'm personally loving it and I was wondering what everyone else thought. The Akazi race is my baby, so go easy on them.

[Saint Faucet]

The Ack page was interesting. I noticed that the Ack artwork you had up shows them in three different colors (blue, grey and green). Are there any more colors and will we be able to choose between them at character creation? Or are the colors representative of something specific (such as their age/career path/etc.)?

[Slitherrr]

I like em, they're cute. I also found the style of their description interesting, more of a travel brochure than a "race description," I like that angle, makes the reader more involved. Just thought of something I was wondering about, it's a big world, and communications aren't the best (with the exception of tells), so how well are races going to know about one another? Easiest way to deal is to make it so that all the cultures know where and what all the other races are, which isn't extremely realistic, and leaves out some of the more interesting politics that can occur (lack of communication = more wars = good adventuring opportunities). And there's another part to this, what if there was a culture that knew nothing about, say, Alchemy, and what if my character knew Alchemy and decided to teach these ignorant people? Even better, what if a PC tried to convert an NPC(society) to a certain religion as a missionary?? Whew, possibities, and definitely bitch to code, but the ideas are there...

[toray]

I'm waiting to see more artwork and other races before I make any judgements. The Ack seem very cartoonish to me in the artwork thus far. Cartoonish isn't necessarily bad (Groo, baby!) but isn't what I was expecting.

[Lamont]

Hey Toray,

Yeah, the art is kind of cartoonish. I am originaly an anime style artist, so you will see a lot of that influence through the game and the concept art. A lot of MMORPGs are way to dark and it takes away from the detail. i am not into cookie cutter style, so nice well lit environments and characters are gonna be cool. I really don't like all that murky, muddy textures most seem to have..The characters will have lots of original style to them, I even developed a new style of coloring to fit. And when you see some of the characters, you will no doubt like them ^_^ (anime style "smile")!! They are in the process of being colored and inked right now!!

And the skin color thing is just variance in skin tones... nothing major?



[Edited by Lamont on 09-18-2000 at 04:03 PM]

[Scrote]

Beautiful coloring, I really dig that. The style of the art isn't something I am accustomed to so initially I didn't really like it but it's growing on me. Plus, this isn't what we're gonna see. 3D models are vastly different to 2D drawings and I look forward to seeing how those'll turn out with your influence Lamont.

As far as current games being too dark - well yeah, but ... well ... hm. Ok, they're dark as in they "lack light", that's what you meant right? I agree that their textures are crap and washed out, I do like some of their areas lacking light though, it adds to the atmosphere, but only in certain areas. So yeah, I would welcome a talented artist's vision of a gorgeously rendered world done in a different way to what we've witnessed so far.

If by dark you meant that they feel "dark" (as in grim, depressing, dreary) well I think that has its place in these types of games too. This is a personal feeling though, simply because I'm a scumbag and I enjoy playing scumbags. Bandits, "rare spice" dealers, petty thieves, beggars, criminals, ugly people... I love 'em! And I'd love to play them as they're meant to be played - in a dark, gritty, hopeless environment. Let me stress something I said once more: ugly people. One thing I dislike about the Anime that I've seen is that most of the time the ugly bad nasty people in it are portrayed in a somewhat handsome roguish way. I don't like this, in their worlds nobody is "uncool", everyone's got a badass haircut and a body an olympic gymnast would envy. I lean much more towards player characters being able to be ugly. Not ugly in a cool way, ugly in an ugly way.

Of course beauty is subjective so it's difficult to explain what I mean but I think I got my point across. If you're still curious as to what I mean let me know and I can try and pen it down in a clearer fashion.

Also, I'm not saying the whole gameworld should be like that, just certain parts of certain cities - where it would make most sense, but I definitely feel that no gameworld is complete without its share of the seedy, shady, ugly underworld.

S'right,
Scrote

ps/edit The different skin tones? Yes yes yes I say! Goes back to what I said once about how non-humans should have differences amongst themselves, the same way humans do. I'm glad you're taking this route.

[Edited by Scrote on 09-18-2000 at 08:29 PM]

[Lamont]

Good words there Scrote!!

Yeah, you can count on the 3D models to have the same type of style and quality as the 2D ones. There are five reasons why you should belive that:

1.) I can model the hell outta stuff and texture it..
2.) I take my time and do it cool... no $$$ is making us do things all half-assed and rushed.
3.) We listen to you.
4.) Rolfe beats me.
5.) We have a kick ass art team..

Now that you know, I have to hide because Rolfe is on his way..

[Slitherrr]

I kinda see your point with the ugly, Scrote... Whoever heard of a Godfather that's cut like a washboard and has supermodel hair? And how about big noses, snaggle teeth, etc? In all these MMORPG's, the people are perfect (Eugh, EQ with it's human females, I swear, how does that banded mail PROTECT?? And dark elves are worse! The only race I know that needs BUTT VENTILIATION IN ITS ARMOR! ok.). I mean, if I were a troll, I'd probably be saying that the trolls looked like perfect examples of their race. It'd be nice to have the option to select a model that doesn't look like a model, just for those like Scrote that are scumbags that want to look like scumbags.

[Lamont]

I like that a lot. The practicality (real word?) and actual usefulness in armor on females is about close to none... the best thing they have to protect themselves would be the layer of spandex they wear.. and they look too perefect. In real life we have ugly humans, so why not have a beauty smorgass board: we got the good, the bad, the ugly and the ones you don't wanna bring home to mamma.

Yeah we'll give you ugly people...

[Ruadin]

I like the Acks they look pretty darn cool and different from your typical fantasy race. I'm a pretty big anime fan myself, so I like the anime twist on those characters. Is that how they will be portrayed in-game?

[Cynycal]

it'd be great for the cultures of different races to be different and thus for their magic to be slightly altered and the way of casting spells to be done differently and for races to be able to learn from one another and foods to be different..etc...

[Wrentia]

The Acks may have developed a fast way to cast certain spells while other races cast them slightly slower, but speed of casting may take away from damage ability... This
could make for very different strategy's based on racial casting characteristics.....could be loads of fun!

-Wrentia

[Cynycal]

and also when u met a new race you'd think they were a bit stranger, and mysterious...because of them actually being different other than in stats and appearence

[Kymeri mac An Iolar]

I have to say something on this subject as a female player. I play EQ and I have for the most part picked male because I can't stand the way EQ has represented females, ie: big breasts, big butts and whats with the swimsuit? The only race that the females wear clothes are the halfling, which is the only race I have a female charactor in. I have to say that most pc/rpg/mmorpg games that I have seen so far are sexist in the depictions of females.
OK, OK, Sorry had to vent that.

[Thirty]

As a male player I even found the EQ females to be annoying. They have gone so far on the fantasy looking females that they dont even really look human anymore. And as for the swimsuits, you try wearing a swimsuit under their "banded" mail like they do and get hit. The rings will be driven right through your skin.

On the covers of many fantasy books, the females, and many of the males for that matter, wear "armor" that is more to show off their bodies than for protection. I assume EQ is sorta going for that look. I've always thought it looked ridiculous, they would'nt last long if anyone ever actually struck at them.

I dont know about UO, but at least in AC the females look human, and when armored, look like women in armor. Then theres Shadowbane, good artwork, but the usual overbusty females (not so far as to be totally unrealistic though). At least they havent gone for the swimsuit look, the armor seems to actually armor them.

About all we can say is, many adventurere women will have good figures. I mean, you chase and be chased by Big Scary Monsters all day and you'll end up pretty olympic athlete looking to.

There is one thing they are doing in Shadowbane that looks interesting. They actually make the stats for women different than men. Men are stronger, and women are more dexterous and have more "spirit" (some sort of magical thing). Actually sounds about right, men and women actually do have differences that make each better or worse at some things than the other, generally speaking. I can see say armored macemen superior to a similar woman, and certain branches of magic may end up dominated by women (there might even be some branches the men can't do). In historical folklore this was seen, a lot more whitches than warlocks for instance.

The only problem with this is the whole political correctness thing. But hey, the Arcanity group will have their own game, their own servers, and won't be in debt to anybody, so they can do whatever they want. No big corporate interests that can be pressured by special interest groups or whatnot.

[Wrentia]

We're supposed to be great looking sword mistresses with hardly any armor....its how we distract all those male beasties that have a thing for buxum babes....

Seriously I never really had a problem with the busty look of females in fantasy games of any type....if you want to play a female who is ugly, there are always ogre's and trolls.

-Wrentia

[Kymeri mac An Iolar]

Its not that I mind playing a good looking woman, its that EQ went over the line (my opinion). Every female is so over done. There are so many more tasteful ways to make a female charactor look good without puting them all in swimsuit armor.

[Thirty]

Yeah, Shadowbane, busty but human looking, Asherons Call, a little busty but human looking, both with realistic looking armor. EQ, uh, best description is deformed. Not the amount of bustyness so much as the overall body shape. And the armor is so rediculous (even for men in many cases) that it kinda spoils "willing suspention of disbeleif" if you know what I mean.

I can go with heroicly good looking women, possibly with heroic figures, but not freaks. Certainly not freaks in swimsuits with see through armor. Heck, if theyre gonna do it, and make armor that looks unprotective, why not use the fantasy artists look and go all the way. You know, the gold plate bikini look.

So Id say to the developers, heroicly good looking, fine. Possibly heroic proportions, fine. Just so long as they dont look like freaks and can wear armor that looks like its doing its job.

And the ability to pick really ugly features is a plus (human and otherwise).

And, uh, how would we be able to tell the difference between an ugly and a beautifull troll? Far as I can tell, the uglier they look to us, the more beautifull the troll thinks it looks.

[Thirty]

Speaking of heroic, this game is designed to act fairly realistic, within the bounds that this is a heroic fantasy, with the players as the heroes. I suppose it could officially be called "Heroic Realism" or some such.


Also, us heroes could have our basic total stats higher than most NPCs, to differentiat us from the NPCs. Some NPCs can also be heroes, with higher stats, including some heroic monsters, better overall than the others of their kind.

It might be nice someday to also have heroic looks. This could be in quite a number of ways. Theres heroicly tall, like say Conan, or heroicly wide, like Friar Tuck. Tall can increase strength and decrease agility, wide even more so, plus increasing ability to bash or charge through someone. You can be heroicly short and agile, like say the Grey Mouser. Of course heroically beautifull/handsome, possibly with like cold or feirce looks, or if say a whitch heroically hidious.

I can see it now. You find yourself hip deep in goblins, and suddenly, out of the bushes comes charging a tall, wide woman with a great winged helmet singing her operatic battle song, knocking over goblins all over. She would definatly get noticed. Thats what you want when your a hero you know.

Could make for all kinds of interesting role playing, especially if the looks have some effect in the game, like the large women being able to knock over some of the goblins due to mass.

[Kymeri mac An Iolar]

Sounds interesting

[Slitherrr]

Whew, gotta catch up after a busy weekend... Great great ideas, might take some work to implement, but the overall effect would probably be worth it for most of us. I would assume an "after release" type of thing, but time will tell.

[George]

Rolfe wrote:

Any thoughts on the Ack page posted recently? I'm personally loving it and I was wondering what everyone else thought. The Akazi race is my baby, so go easy on them.
---------------------------------------------------------

Sure, Ill go easy on you. :)

I agree with Slitherrr that the "travel brochure" descriptive style is very nice. Just add a few more details about their military, politics, economy, society, inter-racial outlooks and religion and you have a great resource for future players. Apply the same approach to all the races in the game and you have a winner.

I like how they are strong in Shamantic magic; they seem like a realy nice "down to earth" type people. And though they may not be on the cutting edge of technology, they might have wisdom and knowledge of life and the spirit unequaled by any other race. I would like to read more on them. :)

Good work Rolfe!

George

[Neville]

I have been DYING for a game engine that allows you to custom your character in more than just "armour" and "clothing". Colour choice et al in accessories (as I recall seeing in another thread) sounds way cool, but as a thought, is there ANY chance that there could be a range of options for stuff like 'hair', 'face', 'torso', 'legs', or perhaps just generic 'body templates' and heads, so that one could mix and match better?

I was thinking that an ideal solution would be to link a group of options to a range of Stats (so if your thief character has abysmal physical scores, he doesn't even get the options for the beefy physiques for instance...?)

But an option like this might allow players of female characters to set their own proportions within racial tolerance limits (ie picking their own cup-size or whatever) so that you as designers don't wind up getting labelled as fixated with huge bums and epic breasts or whatever :)

Just a thought, intended to spark ideas...
N

[Morte]

I was just wondering, will your character be able to get scars (or tattoos for that matter, maybe even magical ones)?

[Kymeri mac An Iolar]

Rich and Rolfe have stated in the past that there will be alot of ways to customize your charactor to be unique looking.

[BelDragos]

Since there isn't "classes" in the game. you don'y have to rely on the sterotypes for your looks. You could be a "mage" while actually a "rogue" in disguise.

[George]

BelDragos wrote:

>Since there isn't "classes" in the game. you don'y have to >rely on the sterotypes for your looks. You could be >a "mage" while actually a "rogue" in disguise.

I have some "issues" about the whole subject of "classes" or lack of in the game. I believe their is a place for "classes" here. Especialy for giving ideas about templates, RP guidelines, skill and ability progression and for seperating/classifing fellow adventerers . I'll have to start up a new thread about it I guess....

George

[BelDragos]

Rich and Rolfe will answer your questions.

[George]

BelDragos Wrote:

> Rich and Rolfe will answer your questions.

Do you mean based on what I wrote above, on their own ( in response to other threads) or if I write a new post on the topic of classes?

George
Arcanity Scholar in Training

[Morte]

Since it doesn't have anything to do with Acks!, it might be useful to start a new thread anyway.