Magic and Skills

[Starchild]

If there's one thing that all RPGs seem to do differently, its skills - it would be a good idea, in my opinion, to make the game's skills short and sweet and not long and drawn out, especially if there's going to be an arena feature.

Charging for skills is only really a good idea in an MMORPG if it's a really powerful skill... that is to say, it wipes people out in one blow. Also, if this is the case with that particular skill, they should be able to hit the person and stop them from charging the magic.

In addition...

If there's one thing about most MMORPGs that I dislike, it's the way they belittle mages by making them not be able to use weapons (ahem, Redmoon) or making them charge EVERY SKILL for three hours (ahem, Ragnarok).

In Ragnarok, mages were basically, in all seriousness, really, really lame. The main problem was that they have very little SP in proportion to what their magic skills take to cast, and there is no way to refill SP. They do have SP Regen, but most of the time, mages don't even use their skills to attack - they use a dagger or something. While I would like to see mages able to use weapons of some sort, I would not like to see it become their main form of attack, and would not like to see them left with some lame stick that has +.0001 attack power. If they run out of MP, and MP refilling items, they should have something as a backup that can help them escape. That's all I'm asking.

[z_man93]

Well, I agree about not having all your mana drawn with a single cast. Especially if they are simple spells. Afterall a warrior doesnt get exhausted after swinging his sword twice so why should a mage be exhausted after casting a couple fireballs. And yes, then regen should be easrier, it should be equivalent to regaining hp.

As far as carrying a weapon. Mages are not into melee so I don't think that they should do much with weapons. But Arcanity does not lock you into a class so I don't see there being a problem with a mage carrying a two handed longsword. Since mages aren't very strong I don't think that any type of melee weapon would do much damage. I just think that if anything there should be Shock Staff's or something that maybe takes very little mana and does more damage than a mage with a sword could do.

[Scarab]

I like uo s way of dealing with the mana issue they have a skill called meditation u can use it passive or active if u use it active u cant move or do anything including take damage but ur mana goes up very quickly passively it determines the rate at which ur mana returns normally

[Morte]

These things are again derived in part from the ADnD system, which needed to balance the classes in a not too complicated a manner. I do think the whole 'wizard equals feeble guy with pointy hat' - stereotype. It is quite possible to balance classes, or in this case skill trees, without resorting to artificially restricting them to certain weapons (I never understood why a Cleric of Talos in ADnD couldn't use a broadsword) or armors and such.

As for your comment regarding skills, it would be prudent to point out at this juncture that in Arcanity just about everything is a skill, unlike some other games where things like fighting and spellcasting are not considered to be skills. Indeed, some skills should remain short and shrub-like, but there are lots of things that would be more interesting if they were more complex.

I would like to see spellcasting considered as a skill just like the rest, and make it possible to become a powerful, but schizofrenic wizard, whose second personality thinks he is a dwarven berserker, madly hacking away at the enemy with his broadsword until he gets stabbed to death by the first kobold he sees, which incidently will happen if you play this in a ADnD scenario, trust me.

[BelDragos]

I have seen it a few times in the years I have been running AD&D.

:D

[z_man93]

lol, the great thing is, is that should be completely possible in Arcanity.

What I was saying before was relating to people dedicated to a skill. I think that a person that spends all of their time increasing int and wiz and developing their spell casting should not just be able to pickup an enchanted berserker sword and do like 300 points of damage. In fact I think they shoul do like 5 damage since they are weak in str and melee skill, maybe do like 20 damage with the thunder stick thats magically charged, and 100 damage with their fireballs. Same with a warrior trying to cast the fireball spell. Should do like 10 damage where he can do like 100 with his weapon.

I am planning on being a warrior. Of the srtictest discipline. But I still will dabble in the arcane arts. Not sure to what extent as we don't really know much yet.

[Christina]

A problem that could arise, like it did in UO, is a player with 100% melee skill and 100% magic skill. In UO you couldn't cast spells while wearing armor, so people would stay hidden on the side, cast the highest level mage spell they possibly could (sometimes high damage, sometimes paralyze), equip armor real fast run out and kill the bewildered bystander. Then heal themselves completly, if they took any damage. Hide again and wait for the next victim.
I agree warriors should be able to use magic, to some extent, and mages some weapons and armor, but you should not have a mage running around in plate armor+5 with a fiery avenger casting ultima!
The best balance I saw in a game was The Realm (2x version no longer available :( ). Warriors could use all weapons and wear all armor, but could only cast up to about half spell level, and not as strong. Wizards could cast everything, for cheaper and stronger, but could not wear the strongest armor in the game or use the very best weapons. They had a few mixed classes you could choose from that had certain other advantages and disadvantages but don't remember them and would take to long and to much space.

[Morte]

The whole mage dilemma is all about balancing, obviously. It is however not all that difficult to come up with a concept that actually makes sense. To take the armor as an example, the magic in the game world might be affected by the presence of (certain types of) metal. The more metal in the vicinity of the caster and perhaps with certain spells the target, the more difficult it becomes to cast a spell and the less predictable its result. As a mage goes up in skill, he gets more proficient in manipulating the flow of magic and is consequently more resistant to the presence of magic. Something like that would be much more intereseting than simply saying mages cannot wear armor, there could for example be special metal cages in prisons to hold spellcasters. It's really not that hard to come up with something interesting that actually makes a little sense instead of simply copying from other systems.

[ZrethkAamshien]

It also makes sense to have armor inhibit the precise and complex movements required in spellcasting, the more powerful the spell the higher the effect of the armor, or certain types of spells should be restricted differently. It makes sense for some metals to inhibit spells, but most things like steel is stupid because then how can there be enchanted steel swords. So in summary the detriment of the armor to spellcasting should depend upon how much it limits ones ability to perform the complex somatic components of spells. Also I think I read somewhere that it is really really hard to keep multiple skills at 100 due to skill decay when you dont use them.

[z_man93]

The other thing that we need to consider is that there are no level caps in Arcanity. As you described the problem with UO, the real problem is that once your melee skill is 100% thats it, you are the most powerful melee person in the game, except for other having better equipment and such. So what else is there to do than work on spell casting. No one will superceed your melee skill.

It will be different in Arcanity. If someone puts 1000 hours of gameplay into developing a spell casting warrior they may have an extremely devastating character. But if I put 1000 hours of strict melee discipline into my character, the other guy wouldn't stand a chance against me in melee combat. And he of course wouldnt have the skill of someone that spent 1000 hours on stricts magic.

[Christina]

Ah, so skills will be based on time spent using them and not so much just a %. That's cool :) Will definatly offset the 100% thing :)

[z_man93]

Um, let me clearify, and of course check the FAQ because I may be incorrect. As far as I know skill will increase either with use or I believe maybe with training points that are earned in some way. However I believe that there will be no cap on skills so you will not run into the person that has maxed his melee and magic.

Again, best to review the FAQ, I go back there every month or so just to refresh myself.

[BelDragos]

Your skill points would buy your current upper limit within a certain skill. Then through use you would work your skill to those levels. The higher the skill goes, the more it will cost to raise your maximun. Neglecting a skill could cause it to lower but I don't know the length of time or how fast.